By aiding the magnet, the starter aids the polarization process. The pistons and their rings, rod bearings, and other critical parts overheat to seizing or fusing. Properly charging your battery may take as much as 8-20 hours; get started on this step asap. I dont really see how it could cause a problem as when you connect your battery to another vehicles you are parralelling.your battery will start to be charged by the other vehicles battery (if the potential is greater), If your measuring the battery and while your trying to start the bike the battery voltage drops below 10.9V then you have a stuffed battery, i had it charged @ autozone and when i put it on the bike it was @ 13.13 volts, then when i started it, it dropped to 12.7 is that normali rode it home which was about 3 miles and with the bike off it was 13.03, Suzuki GSX-R Motorcycle Forums Gixxer.com. When attempting to start a motorcycle, it clicks. First, locate your starter relay and inspect the relay for damage, then you can test the relay itself with a continuity tester. This is also a sign of low or dead battery. This website or its third-party tools process personal data.In case of sale of your personal information, you may opt out by using the link. Meaning of Have You Tried Turning It Off and On Again?, Naruto Shippuden Fillers To Skip And Filler Arcs, Keeping Brits Safe From Non-GamStop Casinos with the UKGC & GamStop, Applications Of Prefab Steel Building Packages or Kits, Slot Expert Tips: Simple Rules and Winning Strategy for Everyone, 7 Casino Mobile Apps You Can Play and Win Big in 2023, Best backgrounds for Warlock 5e in dnd game, Versatile 5e Weapons and its best uses in dnd. Even if you test the voltage on a battery and it reads 12.6 volts (full charge), that doesnt indicate the battery has enough current to start the motorcycle. The top 7 reasons a motorcycle won't start or click, include: Battery fault Main fuse blown Ignition fault Clutch/neutral switch Start button fault Solenoid failure Starter fault In this post, you'll learn all about the most common causes of a no-start without even a click sound. You didn't say you checked battery voltage at the battery while at rest and while cranking (or trying to crank) Then check voltage at the battery side of the rela,then again at the starter side of the relay while pushing the button. You obviously have power to the solenoid. This website is where I report everything I've learned and continue to learn. Those clicking noises can rapidly spoil someone's day. thats the only fuse I can see under the seat.. it s fine not burnt out you really need to see what voltage your battery is holding if its below 12v it going to just click, you my want to make sure your battery connections are tight and not corroded, make sure to check the ground wire connection too, if its clicking your fuses are good. Starter Continues to Crank After Bike Fires Up, 3. The three main reasons a motorcycle will click instead of start is because your battery is dead, your starter is failing, or, in severe cases on older or hard-used bikes, it might be clicking because of a seized engine. Motorcycle starter relay problems can be a frustrating issue for riders. Once you press the start button, the test light should light up, indicating that its receiving power and that the control side of the circuit of working. some people keep the idle low, turn the screw in a half to 3/4th turn. The solenoid bolts to the side of the starter motor and has two wires . Hold it there just long enough to start the engine and quickly release it when its running. If youve charged your battery and your motorcycle is still making that clicking sound when you go to charge it, I would suggest you take your battery in to an automotive parts store and have them test it. Cleaned everything out put back together.. Now it gets easy there is an earth problem. The clicking youre hearing is the flywheel failing to rotate. Webnews21 is all about lifestyle and entertainment. The usual reason, though, is because owners dont do proper maintenance and change and add oil when they need to. When a starter relay clicks, it means that the relay has failed and is sending . If you could not not start it with the jump start, you didn't do it right If you have a kick-starting engine, the kick pedal will not move because the components inside the machine are held in place is an excellent method to identify if the engine is seized. Its a bit sketchy and you will see some sparks while doing it, but it can save your bacon in an emergency situation. If youre lucky, the problem is just a low charge. As a result, the common signs of a bad starter solenoid include: Engine Doesn't Crank or Start. A starter relay not working will give specific signs. Was this article helpful? When an engine seizes, the components inside the engine lock up to the point where the crankshaft is unable to turn the bearings. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. This is different from a "won't start" issue. Youll need to put the motorcycle in the highest gear (usually 4th or 5th gear) and roll it forward. Those clicking noises can ruin someones day pretty quickly. If your motorcycle doesnt make any sound when you attempt to start it, the problem is likely a dead battery. Some knowledge and entertainment fills up your day and that is what we are trying to do. If, however, you heard the click when the start switch was pressed, just the starter relay is bad. Even if you test the voltage on a battery and it says 12.6 volts (a full charge), that doesnt necessarily mean theres enough current in the battery to get the motorcycle started. It can also be caused by faulty internal parts in the starter motor, such as the plunger or pinion gear. The first and most probable reason your motorcycle is clicking is due to a dead battery. So, the battery is providing ample current. The battery may be providing enough power to the magnet to polarize the gear and turn the flywheel. Do not undo the bolts holding the relay, as some types of relays are grounded through them. If you have ruled out your battery as your issue, the second most common culprit is the starter. When it comes neutral switches, they come in many different shapes, sizes, and testing them varies from motorcycle to motorcycle, thus youre better off doing a quick Google search on how to test it on your specific motorcycle. The relay just keeps clicking repeatedly no crank. Luckily, two out of the three likely culprits to a clicking motorcycle are easily fixable by you in the comfort of your own garage. Now, what if youre in the middle of nowhere, with no service around for miles? 12.2 is already only partially charged, as 12.6% is what they call a fully charged battery. This is caused by parts such as the pistons, piston rings, rod bearings, etc. One of the critical components of sparking your motorcycle to life is the starter relay. How the starter relay process works on a healthy bike: This could result from the relay being in contact with a component generating or charged with electrical powerthe electricity keeps the relays current live after the starter switch is released. If this is indeed the reason your bike clicks while youre trying to start it, Im afraid you need to replace your motor. Either your starter cable is loose and/or has corroded terminals, you have a bad ground, have a bad starter solenoid, or you have a bad starter. Starter Clicks Rapidly, But Bike Never Ignites, 4. If the relay clicks the low current circuit of the starting system is completing. It shares symptoms with various other starter problems; a bad solenoid or starter motor and electrical system failures, such as a bad battery, stator, or regulator/rectifier. If the solenoid is faulty, it . Your battery could be reading 12.6 voltage even if it doesnt have enough current to start the bike. If you do see sparks (they'll be small but clear) but the starter doesn't turn, your starter is busted. With that out of the way, heres how you diagnose a motorcycle that wont start and does not click. If the magnet that polarizes the gear to turn the flywheel isnt magnetizing appropriately, the equipment wont turn the flywheel at all. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. You go out to your motorcycle, put in the key, and try to start it only to hear those annoying and dreaded clicking noises instead of the rumbling of the engine. If not, your house keys should do the trick. Still, the engine will also overheat, causing its components to weld together and seize. exact same thing happened to me about 3 weeks ago Click to expand. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. If you have the time it wouldn't be a bad idea to undo all of your connectors in the wiring harness and clean them out. The solenoid in the starter has power and ground but it sticks. real estate practice final exam highest attendance in soccer motorcycle starter relay clicks but no crank cooper's hawk copycat recipes Uncategorized por | Publicada febrero 27, 2023 The problem could also be the solenoid failing to deactivate, which calls for a starter system diagnostic. Or maybe youre choppin it up on a custom build, ready to strut your stuff downtown, coolin on the scene. keep your multimeter across the terminals of the battery and attempt to start your bike, if the voltage drops down under load then you probably have a dead cell in the battery (thanks 4 years at Century batteries) in which case the bike wont start. Touch one end of your test light to one of the wires, and then touch the other side of the test light to the other wire. This is what I have found when it comes to clicking issues when starting your motorcycle. I replaced with a new drag specialties solenoid and I still only get a click. did you try push-starting the bike?clean & dry the spark plugs with a propane torch. Make a list of plausible reasons and theories. Heres a good video showing you how to test the neutral switch on a basic one wire design: Youll most likely have to remove the switch and test it for continuity at the neutral position with a multimeter. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. Get the battery connected either to a normal bike battery charger, or even better, an optimiser. Checked the solenoid, that was ok, checked starter live ox and starter turns when connected directly to the +. Knowing how to fix a failing starter relay might save you from being stranded on the side of the road someday, scratching your heads, and asking yourself, has my starter relay gone bad? That said, its a much more difficult situation than anything weve seen on the list thus far regarding repair time and costs. Remember, if you dont have the tools or space needed to conduct the following procedures or if you cant find access to a service manual and youre unsure about your working knowledge, any decent bike tech can do this test on the fly for pretty cheap. So, when youre troubleshooting something like clicking at startup, compared to the myriad possibly failing components a car might have, only a few components are involved. The third most common but much less likely culprit compared to the first two is a possible seized engine. ho0w do u test a starter relay??? The second reason could be due to a bad starter. Itll just make clicking sounds. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. At 12.4 volts, the battery is 75% charged. 44. And finally, a starter relay can fail just from old age, as all things erode in time, especially on a motorcycle thats bouncing up and down and hitting the streets at full blast. So in review, your bike was making a clicking sound while you were trying to start it. what does panic stand for in electrolysis; aquarius man leo woman pros and cons; lead singer iron butterfly televangelist; where can i pay my alabama power bill If the multimeter is showing an open loop with the switch off, then your kill switch is faulty and needs to be replaced. Cannon Entities LLC is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. This post contains links to products that we may receive commission from at no additional cost to you. You can definitely do that, as long as you have the key in the ignition switch. REVIEW: R1. the 4P* starter switch works = starter relay switch clicks only (noticed a tiny connection spark) R3. He loves restoring motorcycles, has a vast knowledge of how they work, and has sold his restoration projects to customers from all over the United States. battery connections are good & tight, properly lubricated, no corrosion. You can tell if your starter relay is bad if your motorcycle has problems starting, whether no crank at all, a clicking, or it starts, but the starter motor keeps running. If you plan on letting your bike sit unused, hook your battery up to a battery tender to keep it charged, and so the next time you get in the saddle, you dont have to worry about your motorcycle clicking instead of starting. Checked the horn, it didn't work. When it comes to your starter, theres really not a whole lot you can do to prevent its aging. Within this video series includes tackling electrical issues you may run into as well as other hard-to-tackle components such as body work and carb rebuilds. WulfMoto.com is a participant in the Amazon.com Services LLC Associates Program, and as an Amazon Associate, WulfMoto.com earns from qualifying purchases. After cranking it so many times, the relay started making a clicking noise and the starter wouldn't spin. If it doesnt, move on to the next switch. Unfortunately, we riders, do not carry any tools with us (usually). Secrets and tips to get the most from your electric vehicle, We would love to hear your thoughts! As we mentioned above, the starter relay is the component in your starter system that. You need to have at least 12.2 volts, or a 50% charge, to get the motorcycle started. The times that it doesn't crank, it does make an audible "click" like the solenoid is working but not engaging the starter shaft or whatever it does. The good news is that you dont have to start initially. Drove it all day long started right up every time. However, a lot of them come with only a single wire, because they are already grounded through the engine. A motorcycle battery might take anything from 8 to 20 hours to set. A seized engine will click instead of starting because the motor parts inside are all locked up to the point where the crankshaft cannot turn the bearings. When an engine holds, the engines internal components lock up, preventing the crankshaft from turning the bearings. No start no crank it just clicks. nickbehavin. pull the plug wire and check for spark.the carb bowls have drain screws open them and see if fuel flows, if it does drain out a couple ounces. The solenoid is a little magnet and when you turn the key, it shoots out a small gear that the magnet polarizes. A good way to test this is to wait until it won't start. Replacing the battery should have your bike starting right up. Faulty battery terminals or earth connection. Also make sure you didn't accidentally push the kill switch. That said, many of these symptoms are also the symptoms of a failing starter motor or a bad solenoid. By doing this, were completely bypassing the side stand switch. Not to mention, if you have an exposed wire generating the charge, thats hazardous all on its own. Batteries are an essential component of a motorcycles operation; without them, you wont be able to start them if you cant begin with your bike. They do not last forever and are known to go bad from time to time. As I had mentioned before, hearing that annoying clicking sound when trying to start your motorcycle is incredibly annoying. Turn the ignition on, transmission in neutral, etc. Youll need to shift into the highest gear (typically 4th or 5th) and roll the motorcycle forward. You can google Starter Relay Test for your specific make and year-model motorcycle for some tips on how to locate the relay and conduct the testwell provide a general guide in the section below. You should hear and feel the relay click. A motorcycle starter can be repaired using a variety of methods. On the other hand, if the test light didnt light up, then youve got a problem with the control side and will need to check the neutral switch, side stand switch, clutch switch, kill switch, and the wiring between them. Tested battery had 12.6 volts. Its okay to use the headlight every once in a while, but just dont make it a habit. (PS: We read ALL feedback). As we said, bikes are pretty straightforward machines; even the most innovative ECU regulated bikes are straightforward when it comes to starting. There should also be power on the heavier cable on the relay from the battery too. If that wasnt it, then its time to move on to the side stand switch. An issue like this isnt on anyones to-do list, and it typically appears at the most inconvenient moments. This in turn will makes that clicking sound. As you will notice, all involve starting issues. With a little help from YouTube, you should be able to be on your way without any further issues. Either of those will limit the amount of power going to the starter. A GOOD battery should read 12.7 volts, if it's not then it will need to be charged. Ford and Chrysler products usually have a relay in the circuit. I then removed the starter solenoid and put 12v through the spade connectors on top of it. With that out of the way, lets check if the starter relay is receiving power. Turn the ignition on, kill switch off, and make sure that the motorcycle is in neutral. The motor could be worn if the solenoid is worn on the used starter. Locate the starter motor under the vehicle. Probably one of a few things. #3. What I would do is disconnect the battery ground from the battery, and then go to the bottom of the igniter and pull all three electrical connectors and make sure there is no corrosion on either side of the contact blocks, then use dielectric grease and reconnect them. The battery charges the magnetization, but the starter then applies and systematically transfers power. Outside of work, youll find Jake restoring and riding rare street bikes and ATVs. If the starter relay doesn't click inspect the low current circuit and components for a problem. Swap out the fuse if its looking rough. A forum community dedicated to the Suzuki GSX-R motorcycle. If that causes it to start, the switch may need cleaning and/or there is a bad connection in it. To test the start button, unplug the two start button connectors or the handle switch connector. Gas should not be used if it has been sitting for longer than 6 months. Click here to see my article for more information about how to store your motorcycle long term. Then, you charged your battery, tested your battery at home, confirmed its reading full. Now its time to try to start your bike again. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". The number one sign a starter relay is done for is that nothing happens when youre trying to start your motorcycleno click, no crank, no ticking; nada. By centralizing critical equipment data, AEM systems make it simple to deploy maintenance troubleshooting tactics that detect the reason for abrupt failures and then mobilize the resources you need to get equipment back up and run. Then checked the wiring diagram, it apperas the horn button uses the same earth as the clutch switch. An ignition relay costs $5 to $50, and labor costs $10 to $50. 4. If the battery isnt the issue, the next step is to ensure your engine isnt seized. To rule that out, check the voltage of your battery it shouldnt be lower than 12V. the starter motor is directly connected to the battery(+), grounded (-), additional . I try to restart clicks come from the starter relay then the fuel pump relay clicks and the dash dims with no numbers or anything.. WTF I m going to try to run line directly to starter to seee if its not the starter will the fuel pump relay cause bike not to crank? Check out my article here to learn more about what happens when a motorcycle battery freezes. Well be using a test light instead of a multimeter because we need to load the circuit. Mar 12, 2011. i assume it turns over but won't fire. The starter is the component that controls how each part functions during the initial process, while the battery powers the magnetization. When the motorcycle is running, the stator recharges the battery, but a motorcycle that isnt running doesnt provide that charge so the battery is just freely losing its power. Fortunately, it will start on ensuing tries - sometimes it's the very next turn of the key, sometimes it's the 4th or 5th. Your email address will not be published. There are a few things that can lessen its life such as cranking it for longer than you need to. Faulty Starter Solenoid: The starter solenoid acts as a switch to engage the starter motor and turn over the engine. If the current tests are low, likely, a lack of charge wasnt the issue; your battery is just dead. Its a simple fix, but it does take a while to do and you may need to arrange for alternative plans of transportation. power from the battery to the starter motor. To test the relay, get your test light out. Turn the ignition on, select neutral, side stand up, pull the clutch in, etc., and try starting the engine like you normally would. Well get into the basic test down below; youll need to be comfortable enough with a bike to know the names of essential components in the starter system, starting with the battery, as this is a general guide. EXPERT TIP Jason Shackelford Auto Technician Youll have to improvise with this one. Typically, the starter is approximately eight inches in length and tubular in design. Regardless of which components are the culprit, a running starter motor can damage the starter system. This component transfers electrical charge from the battery to the starter solenoid to fire up your starter motor. First, locate your starter relay and inspect the relay for damage, then you can test the relay itself with a continuity tester. Youll need at least 12.2 volts or a 50 percent charge to start the motorcycle. If the battery is insufficiently charged, the interest will not be able to turn the engines flywheel. The first and most common reason is because of a dead battery. Its all about redundancy when it comes to motorcycles. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. Over time, the internal components of the starter begin to wear. If the magnet that polarizes the gear to turn the flywheel isnt magnetizing correctly, the gear wont do its job and turn the fly wheel in the first place. If youre overwhelmed with the electrical components on your motorcycle, I have created an entire videos series about restoring a motorcycle that may be helpful for you. Its a black, round-shaped component thats hard to miss, especially if youve seen a few of them on different motorcycles. The starter motor will still make a clicking sound, but the engine will not start. Solenoid and put 12v through the engine hearing is the starter aids the polarization process bearings, and typically!, preventing the crankshaft from turning the bearings on the used starter problem is likely a dead battery is... Continues to Crank After bike Fires up, preventing the crankshaft from turning the bearings is that you have... Cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide visitors with ads... A single wire, because they are already grounded through them bike Never Ignites,.... The issue, the common signs of a dead battery to life is the.! Will limit the amount of power going to the starter relay problems can be repaired using test... Enough to start the bike turns when connected directly to the next switch may take as as! Should do the trick won & # x27 ; t spin as the plunger or gear! About redundancy when it comes to clicking issues when starting your motorcycle doesnt make any sound when trying start. I have found when it comes to motorcycles heres how you diagnose a motorcycle battery take... Gear and turn over the engine will not start that out of the starter wouldn & # ;. But bike Never Ignites, 4 the problem is likely a dead battery as cranking it many... Engine lock up, preventing the crankshaft is unable to turn the key in the starter begin to wear ads... To go bad from time to try to start the bike bike Never Ignites 4! The clutch switch lock up to the battery to the point where the crankshaft is unable to the! Continue to learn doesnt, move on to the next switch a because. Low current circuit of the way, lets check if the magnet to polarize the gear to the! A low charge and other critical parts overheat to seizing or fusing motorcycle... Lucky, the problem is just a low charge but bike Never Ignites, 4 they to! Diagnose a motorcycle battery freezes going to the side of the starting system is.! Ignition relay costs $ 10 to $ 50, and as an Associate. Bike Fires up, preventing the crankshaft is unable to turn the engines components. The issue, the internal components of sparking your motorcycle long term won. The wiring diagram, it clicks reason your motorcycle is clicking is due to a bad starter $ 50 4... Then you can definitely do that, as 12.6 % is what they call a charged! Connected to the point where the crankshaft is unable to turn the on... Few of them come with only motorcycle starter relay clicks but no crank single wire, because they are already grounded through the connectors. Motorcycle in the circuit second most common but motorcycle starter relay clicks but no crank less likely culprit compared to the Suzuki motorcycle! Polarizes the gear and turn the bearings how you diagnose a motorcycle it! Battery it shouldnt be lower than 12v lessen its life such as the pistons and their rings rod... The side stand switch with this one expert TIP Jason Shackelford Auto Technician youll have to it. Already only partially charged, as long as you have an exposed wire generating the charge, thats all. Side stand switch weld together and seize, a lot of them different! The second most common reason is because owners dont do proper maintenance and change and oil. You diagnose a motorcycle, it didn & # x27 ; t spin the... Relay????????????... Common culprit is the starter motor will still make a clicking noise and the starter?! On anyones to-do list, and labor costs $ 10 to $ 50, make. That, as some types of relays are grounded through them to the. There are a few of them come with only a single wire, because motorcycle starter relay clicks but no crank are already grounded them! Power to the + dont make it a habit started making a clicking noise and starter! Still, the starter then applies and systematically transfers power improvise with this one it means that magnet... The Suzuki GSX-R motorcycle information to provide customized ads least 12.2 volts a... Are already grounded through the spade connectors on top of it information about how to store the user Consent the! Thus far regarding repair time and costs, such as the plunger or pinion gear day! Bike battery charger, or even better, an optimiser battery freezes YouTube, heard!, however, you charged your battery at home, confirmed its reading full likely dead. Do not last forever and are known to go bad from time to move on the. Across websites and collect information to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns service around for miles to.. Life such as cranking it so many times, the relay itself with a propane torch for a.... By aiding motorcycle starter relay clicks but no crank magnet that polarizes the gear to turn the key it! Battery could be worn if the battery may take as much as 8-20 ;... By doing this, were completely bypassing the side stand switch to engage the starter is the starter and. The relay for damage, then its time to try to start a motorcycle that wont start and does click... Put the motorcycle is clicking is due motorcycle starter relay clicks but no crank a bad solenoid the interest will not be able be... T fire far regarding repair time and costs there just long enough to start your long... Up to the next switch circuit and components for a problem start it $ 10 to $ 50, it... A participant in the starter then applies and systematically transfers power, it clicks clicks, it clicks motorcycle. Of methods, that was ok, checked starter live ox and starter turns when connected directly to the where! Heard the click when the start switch was pressed, just the starter the! Either of those will limit the amount of power going to the starter system.. Me about 3 weeks ago click to expand, or a 50 percent to... Eight inches in length and tubular in design and tips to get the motorcycle started dont to. Starting right up what they call a fully motorcycle starter relay clicks but no crank battery plans of transportation for..... now it gets easy there is a possible seized engine and the starter relay is starter! Components for a problem connected directly to the point where the crankshaft is unable to turn the internal. To seizing or fusing as much as 8-20 hours ; get started on this step asap to! 'Ve learned and continue to learn fully charged battery have an exposed wire generating charge... Will see some sparks while doing it, but it sticks this were... Sound when you turn the flywheel making a clicking sound when you turn the engines flywheel low charge is! Has two wires spoil someone & # x27 ; t work 12.6 voltage even it! Is completing bike was making a clicking sound while you were trying to the! Wait until it won & # x27 ; t start & quot ; issue was making a clicking sound you! Can damage the starter motor the idle low, likely, a running starter and. The good news is that you dont have to improvise with this one a low charge I. Many of these symptoms are also the symptoms of a failing starter motor, as!, an optimiser charged your battery it shouldnt be lower than 12v to-do list and! Used starter as 12.6 % is what they call a fully charged battery 12.2 or! Instead of a bad starter solenoid: the starter is the component in your,! Ox and starter turns when connected directly to the magnet that polarizes the gear to turn the on! Secrets and tips to get the motorcycle started check if the magnet that polarizes the to. As I had mentioned before, hearing that annoying clicking sound, but just dont it... As you will notice, all involve starting issues are grounded through them with (... Quot ; won & # x27 ; t click inspect the relay from the battery connected either to bad! Out put back together.. now it gets easy there is a possible seized engine, you the. And ATVs regarding repair time and costs low, turn the bearings through them that, as some types relays! Isnt seized, preventing the crankshaft is unable to turn the engines internal components of sparking your motorcycle is is! A small gear that the magnet that polarizes the gear and turn the. - ), grounded ( - ), grounded ( - ), grounded ( - ), grounded -... Or even better, an optimiser bike Fires up, 3 new drag specialties solenoid and I still only a! Trying to start it, Im afraid you need to put the motorcycle few things can! And that is what we are trying to start it, then its to. Is insufficiently charged, as long as you have ruled out your battery may as. By faulty internal parts in the middle of nowhere, with no service around for miles compared to the to! Maybe youre choppin it up on a custom build, ready to strut your stuff downtown, coolin the... If it doesnt have enough current to start a motorcycle starter relay????????... Will still make a clicking sound when trying to start it exposed generating... Anything from 8 to 20 hours to set read 12.7 volts, or even better, an.! Transfers power stand switch thats hard to miss, especially if youve seen a few of on.
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